Australia's international spies have a "marginal advantage" over their overseas counterparts and are increasingly operating in a "grey zone" of international tensions without outright conflict, the head of one of Australia's spy agencies has said in a rare interview.
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Paul Symon, head of the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, says new technologies are playing an increasing role in the work of his agency, which is responsible for gaining intelligence about individuals and organisations outside Australia, and answers to the foreign affairs minister.
Speaking in a series of video interviews with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, Mr Symon described the agency he leads as "playing attack" and domestic spy agency the Australian Secret Intelligence Organisation as "playing the defence".
"The margins between the two overseas are close," Mr Symon said.
"We believe that we still have a marginal advantage to obtaining the secrets that we obtain, but we don't rest on our laurels and we cannot afford to be complacent. That's why science and technology is an important component to how we think about our tradecraft."
While not naming any countries or specific situations, Mr Symon acknowledged that Australia's spies and military operate in a complicated world where many countries have hostile relationships, without being in conflict.
"The grey zone really is increasingly being used in the lexicon to reflect the fact that we are in this environment of coercion short of conflict. And that is keenly felt inside the intelligence community, whether it is on the defence or the offence," he said.
"The other comment I would make is that it's often a term that the military is using, and I think our military and the other militaries around the world are thinking very very carefully around coercion short of conflict and the role of the military."
Mr Symon said despite the rise of technology, especially as it is used in intelligence, human intelligence - referred to as HUMINT was still important.
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"Humans will develop trusting relationships and share secrets - they are willing to build a relationship with a service like ours that cultivates, recruits and validates them. There is a relationship that builds," he said.
"So when you're trying to understand senior leaders around the region, or further afield, you're trying to understand the way they're thinking, their vision for their country, the risks that they see, and the opportunities they see. Those sorts of conversations are normally held in inner circles, and are between humans, and will always be that way."